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Green Girls Posdcast |Episode 1 | Vegan at the Holidays

Hey amigos! Welcome to Green Girls, the podcast that follows our journey (and struggles) to becoming green.

In this episode, we discuss what it's like to be vegan during the holidays. Catching up with family and friends is awesome, but sometimes diets can make things difficult during holidays

If you liked this episode get in touch on Instagram with @greengirls.podcast

Listen on Spotify, iTunes, or right here:

Links to mentioned goodies:

Earthlings - Documentary trailer

The True Cost - Documentary trailer

Eating Animals - Book

Episode 1 Transcript

Chloe: [00:00:00] We acknowledged the traditional owners of the land on which we record this podcast.

Mikaela: Always was always will be Aboriginal land.

Chloe: Hi Mikaela.

Mikaela: Hello, Chloe.

Chloe: How are you today?

Mikaela: Very well. It's been a good week.

Chloe: I know we only saw you on the weekend, but it was actually so long since I've last seen you.

Mikaela: That was very nice.

Chloe: Did you come home with many treats from the big vegan weekend ?

Mikaela: Yes. From the big vegan market? I regret not buying that Turkish delight chocolate.

I ate the Rocky road log in that night. I, I bought this like long Rocky road chocolate and cut it all up into tiny little pieces. Put it in a container thinking, yes, this is going to last me a little while.

And the next day. Gone.

Chloe: I guess I'm not surprised. They looked really good.

Mikaela: It was really good. What treats did [00:01:00] you have?

Chloe: My haul was good. I satisfied Tarik by bringing home four packets of plant jerky. Oh, yes. so he's no happy and it's going to take them camping.

What did I get? Oh, I regret not buying the candle. I think it's called a sinus relief candle or something. And I swear like the next day, because I was around so many people, I think I've got a cold, so I could have used it.

Mikaela: Thoes candles were so cool though they had like flavors of like red bull. And I know you didn't know this one, but purple zappos, so cool.

Chloe: Whatever a zappo is a delicious lolly. It did smell really good, [00:02:00] but I have a thing where I, I can't buy candles that I would eat.

Mikaela: No, that's fair. At fair enough. Yeah, I was going to say, I feel like you can you ruin the taste or you ruin the smell when you have something like burning for a while. You're like, Hmm, I like that anymore.

Chloe: You know what I really want, I want a scented candle that smells like a freshly blown out candle. Oh, you know what I mean? Like once you have a birthday cake, you blow out the candles smell. Yeah.

Mikaela: There you go, marketing idea. I don't know what you call it but..

Chloe: I will do this. I mean, I don't, I don't know if you can even do that. Like the only way to get that scent is by just lighting candles repeatedly.


Mikaela: Well, that's the whole thing. That's like, it's the scent, but it doesn't smell like anything. And then when you blow it out, it smells good. So you just have to light it and then blow it out and light it and blow it out.

Chloe: The best thing though, at that fair, I swear was the donuts I bought.

Mikaela: [00:03:00] I wanted to buy those donuts, but there was such a long line, I should have gone.

You guys went to go get food. And I was like, okay, I'm going to go home now. And I'm going to pick up a a treat, like a cake or something.

Chloe: Yeah. What did you get?

Mikaela: I walked around and a lot of the places didn't have much or there was a huge line. So I went to the one place that had like five cupcakes left and I was like, amazing $5 on this jaffa cupcake. And it was like the most disappointing thing. I was really sad,

Chloe: I'm sad for you.

Mikaela: I was like, maybe, cause it was like towards the end of the day I don't know, and it wasn't very good. And then I pre-booked my parking at Melbourne museum and I go to pay and I literally had like $15 on my card. I think it was like $15.80 or something. I go to leave and it's like $18.40.

And I was like, I literally don't have that money on my card right now. Like I just took cash out, just spend at the market. So I called operator and I was like, oh I booked [00:04:00] online, it should be $15. And he was like, no, But luckily he put it through for me and I left. I would have had to live there I literally had no more money on my card. I had taken out the exact amount for the market in cash. Allowed $15 for parking and almost got stuck.

Chloe: Oh, that sucks. I wonder what happened then if you thought you pre-booked online. I don't

Mikaela: know. I definitely booked it like 8:00 AM. So like I gave them my class details. So hopefully I didn't get scammed.

I don't

Chloe: know. I smell a scam stress. Like no you didn't.

Mikaela: Yeah, no, you did not. And we just stole your $15.

Chloe: I didn't hear you. Oh my goodness. Yes. I'm really sad for you actually. More than that. My friend, penny actually has a great recipe for that. So now I'm going to be making them a little,

Mikaela: oh my God. Can you trial it and tell me how that works.

I would love to make [00:05:00] some,

Chloe: oh, you can come over. You can be there for the whole thing. We're having them together. I'm getting a Biscoff spread. I'm going to get whatever version of Nutella. Nutella. Yes. Yes. The teller. I can find any other spread you want, you can bring it. Oh my

Mikaela: God. I have a collection that sounds delicious.

Darn arts and podcasts. I think that's a, I think that's a very good idea. I know we do a podcast. I think we probably should considering it's about seven minutes in, let's say. Yeah.

Chloe: True. Well, what veterans now? Episode one, episode one. What are we talking about? Who always well, but going to kickstart with holidays here has just been Easter, but whenever people are listening could be whatever time and it feels like there's always a holiday going on right now.

Well, I mean, for one those birthdays, yes. Whenever throughout the year, but then you've got Christmas in America, this Thanksgiving there's Halloween. Easter. [00:06:00] Yeah. So, I mean, all sorts of other holidays with other sorts of religions and cultures that I'm just very unaware of. Yes. As always reasons for holidays.

And I can't think of a single holiday that doesn't also come with food.

Mikaela: Yes. There's definitely some traditions around what foods you eat around. You know, what sort of holidays, like, for example, in Australia for Christmas most of the time it's like a main meal of like a versed, like a Turkey, beef, or ham with like stuffing, mashed potatoes, gravy sauce, and veggies, like that sort of thing.

So it can be a bit tricky if you not a may to Asia.

Chloe: Yeah. It's pretty much that press plus. Potatoes and broccoli

Mikaela: sprouts. Yeah. I mean, some families have different traditions. That's for sure as well. Like, you know, if you've gone 18 years of your life having the same Christmas meal every time, and it seemed grained in your family, then it can be a bit hard to go [00:07:00] and you know, come to Christmas holiday and be like, oh actually, no, I don't eat that anymore because people get offended.

People can be like, oh, well, why are you doing? You want to eat my meal that I've cooked? And it's like, it's not about you. It's just something I have decided. So can be hard.

Chloe: I bet sticking to those values as well, like swapping to vegan or even if you've got what's it like? So if you've got an allergy that is basically like new or nearly realized or being gluten intolerant, or just not being able to eat gluten at all, You then miss those foods that you can't eat anymore.

Absolutely. Sure. It's so easy to avoid them most of the year, but on that one day, a year, where like, that's the food, everyone should not shoved in your face.

Mikaela: Not only that, like it's a psychological thing to everyone around you is eating the same thing and celebrating raving about how good it is. And if you're not involved in that you can feel really left out.

So it's, it's hard. It's also definitely a mental thing [00:08:00] to be okay

Chloe: with it. Yeah, for sure. Like you said last time about I suppose being vegan when you're out and about, and seeing your friends or whoever else, tucking into a plate and has meat on it. And it must be pretty tough. Like I'm sure some people don't cap, but if you do really care about the life of that animal to that animal, Yeah.

Mikaela: It's quite a disconnect, especially too, if you love, like, obviously you love your family. I mean, some people can have tricky situations, but most of the time there's strong feelings to me, family members, extended family, and it can be hard, you know, having that disconnect and being like, you don't see what I see.

And it just, it kind of puts a bit of a rift in, in the relationship. Yeah.

Chloe: It's hard to be such a happy day.

Mikaela: Yeah. And then, you know, they look at you being like, oh, you know why you judging me? It's not necessarily the case. It's just like, I've chosen not to eat that can eat whatever you want. But yeah, it can be definitely be tricky.


Chloe: Well, I've been collecting some [00:09:00] stories from secret fans because we haven't actually released this release anything about this podcast, the outside world. So, hi. Hi everyone listening and hello to like the 10 of you that have submitted these stories, but before we kick into them, Makayla, I know you've got some not so fun steps to share with us.


Mikaela: So just a couple of things on. Like vegans and statistics on how many animals are used. Fulford, it's a bit depressing, but I think it's definitely good to know and sort of a good starting point. So first off this one is from the vegan Australia group based on early data from the national nutrition survey and other studies, we estimate that about 2% of Australians have vegan and that's approximately 500,000 people.

Now, this might not be 20, 22 up to date, but it's still a good sort of example of how many of our population are choosing to be vegan. Yay.

Chloe: Sorry. And it's growing every year. [00:10:00]

Mikaela: And if you look at the statistics on vegetarians or, you know, people choosing to eat less meat, that's even higher as well. So it's pretty exciting.

That's so

Chloe: good. Brilliant. Yes. Every little helps. You said that. Yes, that's

Mikaela: starting on a good note now. Going back. Yeah. Sorry. Put down. Okay. All right.

Chloe: I'll sit down

Mikaela: a little bit down. So every year in Australia, about 600 million animals have bred and raised and killed for food. Sorry, this number includes roughly 500 million meat, chickens, 34 million lambs, 15 million cattle, 12 million male men, 12 million egg hints, 12 million unwanted male checks, 8 million ducks, 7 million sheep, 5 million turkeys and 5 million pigs.

That's a lot of numbers.

Chloe: Wow. I, yeah, I've already forgotten half of them, but that's that's [00:11:00] so, but again, I

Mikaela: know it's a lot, it's, it's a lot. And now that one, if you want any more info is actually from Ozzie farms. So you're more than welcome to do your own research as well. I actually found this webpage, which is very depressing, but I think very interesting, very eye-opening it's called animal

And I'm going to bring it up on my computer now, so I can give you a brief little overview. Basically. It tells you in Australia, how many animals have been killed for food this year? Obviously it's not an exact number, but it's based on statistics and it breaks it up also into different types of animals.

So like chicken cattle, pigs, ducks, so on. And then there's this statistic just a little bit further down the page. If you scroll, it says the number of animals killed for food in Australia since you visited this page. And that number is currently at 4,230. Excuse me, the one dash 710, literally, when I told you I was [00:12:00] going to open the web page.

Oh my God. So it's pretty confronting, but

Chloe: the perspective I wanted, wonder how many animals that for that is like within an hour or like within us recording this

Mikaela: podcast. Yeah. It's a lot. Well, let's do a little thing. I'm going to leave it open and let's see what it says. Yeah.

Chloe: Right. That sounds interesting.

Yeah, definitely

Mikaela: the opposite. It's an eye-opener it's yeah, it's a good thing. I

Chloe: like it. I like it. And we can include a link to it in the show

Mikaela: notes. Yeah, definitely. Now I know that was just for Australia. We may, hopefully by the stage, have some listeners that are also overseas, so I'll just quickly touch base on the U S So for like Thanksgiving and Christmas and so on, obviously these numbers change, but an estimated 245 million turkeys turkeys are raised and killed each year.

46 million of them. I killed at Thanksgiving alone and [00:13:00] another 22 million diet Christmas. So, wow. Yeah. It's it's not very nice. That's a lot of Turkey. I can't even comprehend that number. Like when you open that webpage, I was talking about before. Yeah. The total number I showed Jake before I was like, look at this, like, I can't even read this number.

Like I was like, what is that million billion? How do you say that number? It's got three, lots of triple triple numbers. I don't know what is that million? I don't even know maths, so yeah, it's it's depressing. I had a little bit of a teary moment doing some research on this, but yeah. Hopefully things change and hopefully more people decide to be a little bit more ethical or, you know, change their diet for the

Chloe: better, you know, what the stats around the turkeys, I think annoys me the most because I don't remember it being a particularly great meat.

I feel like for the tradition of eating it. Oh,

Mikaela: no [00:14:00] doubt.

Chloe: Yeah. Like if, if they had the option of something else, like, is it, I want to say it's Japan where somehow over Christmas it became a tradition to eat KFC. See, so many more people wanted eat KFC than Turkey if they had the choice. Like it's just the thing to eat that day.

Mikaela: Yeah, absolutely. Sorry, I'm just going to do a quick Google and see if Okay, well, this is Wikipedia. I don't know if I trust Wikipedia or what, like, anyway, this is the first thing that I Googled. I said, where did the tradition for tracking on Christmas come from? So apparently it appeared on tables in England, in the 16th century about popular history tells of king Henry.

I don't know what this number is. V I

Chloe: sent eight Henry the eighth.

Mikaela: There you go. Being the first English Monarch to have Turkey for Christmas. So who knows

Chloe: if we will, but that's from Google. Thank you very much. Thanks Google. Thanks Wiki. Thanks.

Mikaela: Thanks Henry. No thanks.[00:15:00]

Chloe: I

Mikaela: got stopped trying to make Tucky happen. It's not gonna happen. Goodness, man. Oh, great. Let's let's jump into some of our stories. Would you like to start.

Chloe: Yes, I'm going to kick off. We're going to keep all of these anonymous and lovely listeners. So, you know, for next time I would love to do more of these.

And also if you want to submit voice notes. So we've got an Instagram at green girls dot podcast,

Mikaela: I believe that's correct.

Chloe: I hope so. We'll have that one now. I'm

Mikaela: just getting out my mind just to

Chloe: make just fast fact check just to make sure. Yes. So

Mikaela: it is green girls. Sorry. I should face the mic green Gail's dot podcast.

Brilliant. All right. Send us names and send us footnotes and all the fun stuff.

Chloe: Yes. We will be doing many, many interactive episodes like this. We want your opinions. We want your stories. [00:16:00] And we would love it to be in a voice note form because then I feel like we're having a bit more of a chat, but for now I absolutely.

So we can go back and forth. I will start. This one is actually from someone that I kind of know. So for slight background, they are no longer vegan. They are vegetarian. They eat some fish, but mostly like they are strictly gluten-free like as if like they have to be like, there'll be very ill. So I wanted to ask her particularly because I was wondering if it became easier during the holiday season, experiencing it from a being a perspective.

And now from a non vegan perspective. So let's kick in.

Mikaela: She says,

Chloe: yes, shockingly yes. Christmas for sure is a lot easier. Now I'm not strictly vegan. Easter was always pretty easy as it's just Easter eggs. So usually friends or family were able to find vegan Easter eggs pretty easily. But Christmas [00:17:00] lunches.

Oh my God. I remember one year when I was strictly vegan, I went to lunch at my boyfriend's auntie's place and nothing was being nothing except a mushroom Wellington pie, but they made it with normal pastry. So I couldn't eat it. That's disappointing. Even the broccoli been cooked in butter and the potatoes cooked in duck fat.

I was genuinely so disappointed because it was, I made a big deal or it was made a big deal of that. I was vegan and gluten-free, it was lunch. So I hadn't eaten anything all day and the lead up to it and I was starving. So I decided to eat the potatoes and broccoli. Anyway, as I really couldn't eat the gluten.

So the pie was a no-no and then I copped so much shit for eating the food when I was freaking nothing else has

Mikaela: supplied, but then she gets shit thrown at her for eating. What was,

Chloe: yeah, that's true. She could eat. It's one of the reasons I stopped being vegan because people only remembered the vegan part and forgot the gluten-free, which is literally a [00:18:00] medical thing for me.

Yeah. That's so sucks. It was more important to emphasize I'm gluten free and. Then cut out 700 things from my diet. It sucks, but yeah, I definitely feel less pressure at attending events now. Oh, that sucks. That sucks so bad that they've tried to have this great vegan diet and been made so hard by not being able to have gluten either.

Mikaela: Absolutely. That would be really tricky. And I feel like it's so weird that I don't understand a lot of the times I've been like, oh, do you have anything vegan? And people will be like, oh yeah, this is gluten free. And I'm like, well, vice of this, I'm like, oh, I need gluten free. And they're like, yeah, this vegan.

But it's like, no, I literally like, I can't eat gluten, but yeah, people wouldn't get it. It's a food allergy. Like it should be taken really seriously.

Chloe: Yeah. You don't really think so. Good. Gluten. I feel like there are some people who can eat gluten. Like it was almost a fashion for a stage to not eat gluten.[00:19:00]

Absolutely. But that's past now, right? Like I think so. Just like, no, I can't eat gluten.

I think

Mikaela: there's a lot of people that are like, oh, I'm gluten free. Just say I have like stomach upsets and they're not sure what causes it, but then there is a vast majority of people who are medically like have to be gluten free. And I feel like that's sort of tainted it for them because people just think, oh yeah, whatever.

It's fine. They can have some, like, they don't going to die. But like stomach, stomach problems is a serious thing.

Chloe: Yeah. I mean, my friend very regularly has to return his food when we go out and meet with him because he cannot have login. Hmm. Yeah. People will like, I don't like hugging that much. I might say no again, but it's like not genuine to the toilet if I have again.

Yeah. Whereas for him was like, yeah, I can't eat this now.

Mikaela: That's so bad. I think food allergies should definitely be Be taken much more serious and a slight side note, [00:20:00] bloody keys on menus menus that have, like, I feel like a standard key should be made mandatory. Like, you know, for vegetarian VGs vegan JF is gluten-free like, because I've seen some menus where they're like, oh, is vegan.

And then I look at the menu and there's literally nothing labeled VJ or there's something that's, you know, vegetarians smothered in cheese. And they're like, yeah. If he came in and you're like, I'm not sure about that little side rant there

Chloe: for you. You're so right though, I go to every different website or like website menu.

Who am I kidding? One of the menus I see around websites and it'll say vegan or VG or VIII or vege. I'm like, what's what,

Mikaela: what's what I don't know. Right.

Chloe: It's confusing. Normalize one key.

Mikaela: Yes, please. I think that. Yeah, that would be really good. Oh, well that's disappointing. We'll go to our next what was it?

Nameless fan secret fan is how he said yeah. Secret secret fan sounds better [00:21:00] than nameless fan. I'm sorry guys.

Chloe: Cool. You'll just mysterious.

Mikaela: So, all right. This person says I always dreaded the festive season and felt quite overwhelmed by the whole idea, your family gathering and kids running and screaming, overcharged with sugar.

I struggled to the point that it resulted in the breakdown of my marriage. After that, I was glad that I didn't have those obligations anymore. And I was more than happy to have time by myself. But then I realized that the several people who like me during her family or anyone to spend the festive season with, and they feel quite depressed and disheartened by the clownish that is involved during these times.

Hmm. Since last year I started hosting picnics made on what would traditionally be a family holiday so people can feel like they don't have to spend those days. Lauren and I can feel safe and comforted being surrounded by people who resonate with their values. I feel like I have seen this person, person stuff and have been like, oh, I want to go to these thing.


Chloe: sad. That's so [00:22:00] sweet is really cool. I've been to one now. It was really awesome. Okay. I'll mention it. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.

Mikaela: It's story continues. I was always catered full separately, but I felt really uncomfortable by the idea of having a special meal and only attention was on me because my plate was different to this absolutely vibes.

This one time. Christmas presents of cookbooks of my favorite authors genuinely liked their work and wanted to share it with other people. But when I gave those presents, it was assumed that I was trying to convert them to being vegan. That's frustrating. I found the Rollie, I just said is a Rollie I emoji.

And I feel you. Absolutely because I've done something very similar a birthday. A few years ago, I sent a, I think it was documentary something along like earthling vibes or something sent it to my family and said, I don't want any presents this year. I'd really appreciate it. If you could give this a go, like watch this [00:23:00] and it did not go down well.

Oh yeah. What

Chloe: happened?

Mikaela: My mom and my sister messaged me separately about my other sister and was like, you can't text message that, you know, she's going to feel really uncomfortable and it's not right that you guys like that you want to make us watch this. We don't want to like, and I was like, but that's the whole point is that, you know, you're happy not knowing what goes on, but you know, I'd really appreciate it.

Even if you just gave a go, like watch a few minutes of it. And then it just, it ended up fizzling out with any sort of. No resolution and it was just kind of ignored and I was really disappointed. Yeah.

Chloe: That is such a shame. Yeah. I guess it really depends on how you see it. I don't know if it's quite or not, but someone said the other day, the injustice that you walk past is the injustice that you allow or that

Mikaela: you support.


Chloe: Regardless of knowing it's happening or not, like if you're eating that, then you should really know what goes on behind [00:24:00] it. I agree. And if you still want to eat it, okay. I'll still respect it a bit more that, you know,

Mikaela: That's really sad there, cause I'm sure her present of books would have come from the heart and something she really enjoyed.

And this is also a really hard thing when you're so passionate about something or when you're so wrapped up in something new, you want to share it with the people you love and you want to share it with everyone, but it comes across as being pushy when it's like, no, I just really want to talk about this.

I really want to share this awesome recipe that I think you like that people just see, you know, the word vegan and girl, like you're trying to push this on me. So yeah, that's upsetting. That's sad. I'm sorry. Secret fan.

Chloe: I'm sorry. Secret bad, but also so much love to you. Cause I went to one of their events on Easter.

It was really fun. We went to new moon and they do the hemp soft serve ice cream. That was so good. I. [00:25:00] Also so good. And it got to meet a whole bunch of people who are vegan or, or just trying different like vegan diet. There were a couple of guys that who had done. So for health reasons and were loving the food and loving the just health benefits and how much weight they were losing, because that was the goal or like the health goal.

I think one had been to a doctor and was like, dude, you need to work on stuff. And he was like, well, a good way to get there as being vegan. So he just did it like this bloke and he's like 50 days, it's like so good on him.

Mikaela: And we all played bull games. That sounds so sad. Ileus. Tell me next time. One of these is on because I would love to

Chloe: attend.

Yeah. And it's so awesome that you can actually have an event on something like Easter or Christmas. Some like minded individuals, if you're not close to their family or if like, may your family is, you know, in another countries.

Mikaela: Yeah, exactly.

Chloe: And it's all good. I'm going to kick into our next [00:26:00] story. So since becoming vegan, I did find it a bit of a struggle, especially when I would visit the small town I grew up in, it has like one website website.

Oh my God.

Mikaela: Menus and websites and restaurants.

Chloe: Oh, I can't do this.

Okay. It has like one red. Wow. It's

Mikaela: okay. It's okay. I believe

Chloe: in you. Thank you. It has like one restaurant and one supermarket with hardly any specialty vegan items. Usually just had roast veggies with spinach leaves or something for Christmas lunch and saying that my family doesn't really have large get togethers anymore.

So I don't have to deal with extended family asking where I get my protein from rolling

this Easter holidays, my partner, and I went for a little road trip to the Mornington. Peninsula. Love that for you. [00:27:00] It wasn't a struggle to find vegan food. And there was actually a lot of places that had options. The main struggle I had was finding my favorite character.

Good. We're going to get a big reaction over here. Sorry. Then the best things. Oh my God. I'm so picky with my chocolate fixes and I always seem to crave what I can't find it easily. Same. And in the end we found a little cafe that had some sugary vegan treats and I was happy. I have also found places like the vegan grocery store in Melbourne.

Really good because I can order stuff and get it shipped to my mother's house. Oh yes. Great. If you're from a small town, I'm from a small town too. This was the vibe one Christmas. I got a vegan ham delivered to her. Awesome. So it was that when I flew down and I didn't have to go hunting. It's not a big deal.

If I don't get to have fake meat roast or something, but those chocolate cravings can be me to beat, to be honest, like I can relate to this being from a small town in England, [00:28:00] but when I lived in England, I wasn't no way vegan. I was probably addicted to bacon. And so I could get anything that I needed from the usual stop, stop shop, because like, that was it.

I was normal gal with no odd dietary requests, probably got a Sunday roast every Sunday shock. It's just how you live in England. I'm afraid. Yeah. So now if I went back, like when we do go back for Christmas, it's really good that I can actually find stuff in the local supermarkets, but I imagine back then would have been such a struggle being in a small town.

Mikaela: Yeah, definitely. I mean, even like, I can relate to that in terms of where I'm living now. Like my, yeah. My suburb is sort of small, but like. Like, it's not that far away from inner city or whatever. Like, you know, I'm not gonna speculate on where I live. Exactly, but we don't really have any restaurants or anything.

And was working the other day and [00:29:00] we went to a like fresh produce store and those stores have like fancy treats and things. And one of the guys I was working with was like, oh my God cookies. And they were like chocolate chip cookies with like Smarties. And I was like, oh, that looks so good. And I knew straight away that there was no chance that I was going to be able to eat them, but I flipped the packet and yes, no, no.

Good. And then I picked up probably like six other biscuit packets, just like curiosity. No. Good. So I ate my packed lunch while

Chloe: was a little. But it's okay to have it. You just gotta find the right places. Yeah. You need to find those places. Those hidden gems. Yes. Yes. And

Mikaela: beforehand. Yeah. Bulk buy absolutely bulk buy.

I should have bought more vegan market.

Chloe: Yeah. Well, would it have

Mikaela: lasted? No. No, it wouldn't.

Chloe: I would have just seen two blocks of chocolate

by kick us off with the [00:30:00] next story.

Mikaela: So next story, me and my husband went vegan, but due to COVID and travel, we haven't had a holiday to celebrate with family and friends yet. So it was just done our own thing and found plant-based alternatives. My mother has also gone vegetarian again and vegan.

Veganism is a goal for her in the future. Whoop. Oh yeah. My family is pretty supportive, but my mother did have a negative experience. Recently. She was at a family wedding and an unknown person found out somehow that my mom was vegetarian and she doesn't know how, but the person started having a garden in front of everyone at the wedding saying that plans bill pain and y'all hurting plants.


Chloe: fuck.

Mikaela: I don't know why people feel the need, especially at somebody else's occasion. Like, what are you doing? Celebrate? And the wedding don't comment on someone's eating

Chloe: habits. Someone needs to let someone else know that like the definition of veganism and sure. There were probably different ones. But to my [00:31:00] knowledge, it's simply a diet.

That means that you tried to cause the least amount of harm, like the least amount of harm that you can

Mikaela: about why should you be getting shit from people for trying to do something that feels right by you like trying to do the right thing should never be met with hostility. Yeah.

Chloe: So weird. It's such an odd argument to make, excuse me.

I'm trying to cause less harm here. It's

Mikaela: when you it's, when you really like what's the word? I don't know how to want it. When, when you know,

Chloe: you're just getting a little red and angry.

Mikaela: I'm just like when, when, when, when, when never like when I'm triggered one knows you're right. When someone knows you're right, they get real defensive.

Like, you know, if someone said to you implants, I can tell you all, but what about bacon? And you rebutted rebutted. Is that the word with ya? I'm trying to do something that aligns with my values and that I feel is right. [00:32:00] Then I would hope that most people would be like, oh, okay. But you know, when, when you target someone's direct feelings, I feel like they get real angsty and angry.

So yeah. You know, you've hit it right there.

Chloe: Maybe just hurt this person at the past. Maybe, maybe just got a lot of spite to get out of this most, most likely. Yes. Well, all right, well, let's pull up to the next one. Yep. Yep. I, well,

Mikaela: this one's fairly long. So

Chloe: bear with me. I sit uncomfortably.

Mikaela: I am okay. I don't know why I said that.

Like that. I'm sorry.

Chloe: Oh, okay. Then I'll let you read book. All right. For me, holidays became better eventually because it showed me how deeply I think veganism showed me how deeply loved and respected I am from my family. [00:33:00] Aw, that's lovely. My 90 plus year old grandparents will fuss over what to make us to eat.

Then talk to me about it for ages and while it's usually not the best meal as it's all thrown together, but vegan and they're genuinely trying. So it's made our relationship deeper. Plus, it's a great excuse to talk to both my grandmothers wore. Oh, that is so sweet. I love that my heart feels all toasty so much love for those grandmothers.

I've been vegan for five plus years and yes, for the first year or so, it was a little daunting, but I learned how to align my values every day. Not just when it's convenient. Well done. I was also able to gently educate by showing it was possible to mimic the experiences with you and loved.

Mikaela: I love this person.


Chloe: so good. Yeah. As much as you can show that you can have a great time. That's similar. Probably we'll speak. Yeah. Why was I okay. When we host, everyone knows we're a vegan only household. So we actually have multiple smallest celebrations that are intimate and [00:34:00] a greater time. Overall, large family gatherings are more rare anyway, but again, we know a close family member like my mom and my parents, mum will always bring vegan, friendly things for us too.

So we're not ostracized. That is good. So it's not just a weird plate that looks different, different almost everyone. And my husband and I's life will always try what we bring accommodate for us. Or not be offended if we bring all of our own food, it gives us a chance to talk during a celebration about the kind of world we want to see in the future.

I can have more meaningful conversations because there's something universal about caring for the future. Oh, this is so wholesome. I love it. How good is this? Like? Oh, my faith in the world is coming back with each. Absolutely. We also find that we obviously gravitate towards other vegans. So it's really nice to have family celebrations where we bring vegan food versus finding friends where it's an all vegan celebration, like friends slash lives, giving friends, giving lives, giving that must be that, [00:35:00] oh, Hey.

We should do a live giving. I don't know how to


Mikaela: as I like Thanksgiving giving thanks for allies. A gardener, happy

Chloe: giving without killing any of that. Yeah. Cool. I know our experience is probably more positive than most, and it took a couple of years to get into a good place. And it probably helped when my husband came, when my husband became vegan two and a half years ago, it's really a non-issue.

Now, if you can ignore others, eating animals in the home for a meal every once in a while. Well done. What an awesome experience. Absolutely.

Mikaela: I'm glad we have some positive. Like, I feel like most of them are pretty positive too, but you know, to show people that it's not, not the worst thing. Like there's definitely some lovely

Chloe: families out there.

Honestly, I was thinking when I was asking people about this, it would be such a shit storm of people saying like, I hate it. I don't like family gatherings anymore cares about me, but actually so many of these are [00:36:00] like, actually, yeah, my family happens to love me and I happen to love them and they respect my values.

They're just good. And they will make me feel welcome in these patients. No, that's really

Mikaela: not.

Chloe: Yeah, I feel like I should have saved that one

Mikaela: for the end and just been like, oh,

Chloe: should we just go now? It's just done. Nice.


Mikaela: Next one, when I first went vegan, the holidays were a nightmare. We spoke too soon. Cloying.

Chloe: Oh, no

Mikaela: constant badgering from my family, mostly men and one Christmas. I ended up leaving Ellie because she spent the entire day talking about how horrible vegan veganism was until I lost my cool and had had enough.

I lost it five hours.

Chloe: Wow.

Mikaela: Good job. One stage. I started to join my sisters in laws for Christmas and her mother-in-law is amazing. 90% of the food is vegan and she veganized her putting recipes. So we could be included. [00:37:00] It was the complete opposite to what I was used to. So good. That's. Yeah, that's nice.

Continue to just

Chloe: like, well, no one gives me a vegan

Mikaela: pudding. No, I must say, I feel like majority of things now definitely are different than when I first went vegan. Now, pretty much like 90% of the food is vegan friendly. So like, you know, the veggies will be cooked without butter potatoes and all of that.

And then they'll just have like their mate and often I have multiple dessert choices too. So it's, I'm very lucky as well. I think I've got a good situation now and it just took time to me. It takes time. Yeah, sure. Yeah. So continue. I have never been one to celebrate Easter. I hosted it a couple of years ago, mainly because my half sister who lives in New Zealand was in town and everyone was happy to eat.

My dad always eats vegan with me when we

Chloe: go out for lunch or dinner, dad. So cute.

Mikaela: Having said all that, I've also reached a point where I don't believe in holidays, but that [00:38:00] might

Chloe: be a whole other topic. I hope this helps

Mikaela: and feel free to ask any follow up questions.

Chloe: Thank you. Listen. Can we all join your sister-in-law's for Christmas?

Mikaela: Yeah, please. That sounds fabulous.

Chloe: Yeah. Thank you. Well, it seems that's a yes. Yeah. Thank you. See you then. Bye. That's so good. I guess sometimes family can be a bit of a

Mikaela: Dick. Yeah. Sometimes it just takes time because I feel like it can be quite an abrupt change. Like I remember when I first went Vienna, my dad was like, dang checking a true file.

And now they'll be like, oh, do you want to try this, this place? It looks like they've got good vegan choices. And like, he's so sweet. And he messages me. He messaged me the other day and he was like, I'm not sure if you've seen this before, but there's there's the lollies the natural, natural confectionary.

And I was like the vegan lollies. He's like, oh, so you have seen them. I'm like really good. He's like, hello. I bought a packet for you there in the pantry.

Chloe: Thanks dad. [00:39:00] Thanks dad. I'm sure. Oh yeah. Not excited in a heartbeat. Oh yes. I have such a stash of vegan sweets in the moment. Mike I'm so bad, but when I turn around the fact that he went from like, mm that's.

A bit, much McKayla to. I am.

Mikaela: Absolutely. He'll message me all the time and be like, have you seen this? I saw this at Aldi. Oh yeah. He'll be able to buy something. And next time I go over, he's like, I found these things and give me like a stash of goodies.

Chloe: It's very sweet. Yeah. It's very nice. That goes to show that it gets better.

It does. Absolutely. I will kick us into our last story that maybe we can talk about a couple of our own experiences before we wrap it up. Yeah. Mystery mysterious fan says I don't really do holidays except for birthdays, but all's good because most people I know are vegan or supportive. I have, I would say as family, [00:40:00] but I don't celebrate anything with them.

I had about that few years ago and I got great vegan food at the restaurants. Only my auntie tried to debate, but I shut that down by saying I don't discuss that.

Is this a thing? Was it an auntie in there last time? It was a Nan before I

Mikaela: don't discuss that. A few of these people

Chloe: that's right. It was your day. You can shoot it down.

Mikaela: Absolutely. Don't get me shit on my birthday and I'm trying to enjoy food. I don't discuss that. And boom. No, thank you. Yeah, that's good.


Chloe: a good point now. Oh, I'm sure there's plenty of people who will not entertain having a conversation about the positives of being vegan, because it can be pretty confronting, especially if we're eating mate at the time or something. I don't want to feel guilt right now. Yeah. I know

Mikaela: people are like,

Chloe: oh, that just reminded me.

Australia has all these, like get some pork on your fork. Starting again. Well, it's like other, not [00:41:00] enough pigs dying every day,

Mikaela: frustrated. And then there's also lamb. And they're just, they're all in the government, then we'll go contracts and it's just, that's a whole nother story and I could definitely go down a ranch.

So I'm going to avoid, I don't,

Chloe: I caker rain bombs and smiles. She doesn't even go here. I have a lot of feelings in case you

Mikaela: haven't realized Greenville's main mean girls

Chloe: anyway. Sorry. What making it happen? Well, yeah, that was another one. When we have our day with all the baked treats baked with fried rice. I think Friday, Friday, but

Mikaela: probably not on a Friday because I have school on Fridays, but pride Friday on a Saturday.

Chloe: Nice. I love it. [00:42:00] That sounds catchy. Yeah. On a Saturday, so, okay. Let's compare because you've been long-term vegan and my, my Christmas was a bit iffy, so we can talk about that afterwards. So from you, when you first became vegan to now, what was your first experiences like? Did people cater to you still back then?

They came to feedback.

Mikaela: I feel like I was kind of a new concept back then. Like I think people were looking at me, right. Like I was an alien. I, yeah, it's like, oh geez. Interesting salad. No, I actually don't like salad. That's another just

Chloe: eat down the side of the table. Just

Mikaela: dust. No, I feel like I don't actually remember the first sort of family functions.

I do remember making, like, I'm not a huge baker or [00:43:00] anything, and I remember trying to make like a roast and like a dessert. Like I was adamant to bring something really good. Actually, one of the first things I'd ever made was it was like a brand. But it was like a rural brownie with like dates and things, and it was really good.

And then I made like a icing for it. I think I still have the original printout recipe. It was like healthy, healthy, and then very unhealthy icing. And I remember crushing up candy canes and putting them on top and bringing them being like these brownies and like, not telling anyone, but obviously everyone knew that that would be vegan.

But yeah, I feel like there's definitely a bit of a rough time. The start feeling really left out and sort of on my own and not understanding why no one else could see the way I saw it. But definitely now, like I said before, you know, they make the veggies and the potatoes and stuff. Vegan-friendly and this always like a main, I guess, protein choice and a couple of desserts.

So it's definitely a lot easier. And one of my favorite memories [00:44:00] we used to do like, mind you, me and my sisters all fully grown adults. We used to do. And like, we used to go to my mom's house and they had like a big property and my stepdad would put all of the Easter eggs out into the garden. And we would literally like elbow each other out of the way, running around to get them with bags and stuff.

And I felt kind of sad and I didn't want to do it because I was like, I don't want to run around and get Easter eggs. I'm not going to eat them. But then they started including like little packets of Skittles around and stuff. So I would run around and steal their chocolates. And I actually, I remember I was with Jake and we were running into the garden. We saw an Easter egg, like a big bunny or over the fence. Like, I dunno, maybe like waist height, fence, maybe a little higher launched eyes made eye contact. And I just jumped the fence. I jumped the fence, legged it and grabbed that Easter egg and ran away. And he was just [00:45:00] standing there. What, and then at the end we put it all on the table and sorted out and obviously I get all the vegan stuff and they get the truck and stuff. And I was like, I felt really good because I was like, I could be still included in the fun activities. You know, I didn't want to run around and get chocolate that I wasn't going to eat, but I would definitely run around and steal their chocolate and get my Skittles and stuff. So

Chloe: I like that. Competition so that you run around and grabbing everything, but then you would share it.

Mikaela: Yeah. Then we'd break it up, pull evenly. So it was fun. It was like a tradition that we could continue to do. So,

Chloe: so cute. I used to do Easter egg hunts too. When chocolates on the line I can stand to be competitive.

Mikaela: Definitely.

Chloe: That was so good. And at least at Easter time you can collect all of the like tin foil that's around the Easter eggs, collected all together to recycle. That's great. Ha, we like that one. Yeah.

Mikaela: Yes. I think it is it, [00:46:00] is it once it's bigger than a golf ball? It can be in the recycling bin.

Chloe: I think so. I'm not too sure. I just, I just make it as big as I can.

Mikaela: Yeah. I just keep all my little bits. I have, I have like containers around the house for everything like empty packets and then I have soft plastics here and then I have foil bits here and eventually they all kind of compile and then I can, you know, recycle it and dispose of it appropriately.

Chloe: Oh, Ooh, fun side story that has a mouse at my work right now. And it, it was in my redcycle bag.

Mikaela: Oh, excuse me. I can imagine you left any crumbs in your redcycle stuff?

Chloe: Surely not me. No. It actually showed up a day after I decided to like empty my sweets into a different thing. Oh. I had like two empty plastic bags and I put everything into tupperware so like I can mix it all together and have lots of fun.

And I think like mice love sugar. And so I think they were [00:47:00] literally drawn to this bag and they probably just ate all the sugars. So it was totally my fault. And I've had to take all of my redcycling away now.

Mikaela: Oh, well that's okay. Hopefully mouse goes elsewhere.

Chloe: I really hope so. I haven't told my bosses yet.

Mikaela: I actually relocated three jumping spiders. today and the guys were looking at me like, what are you doing? And I was like, here you go little guy, like go in to the Bush.

Chloe: Don't stay in his car. That's so cute.

Mikaela: I think it's cause I blame this tick-tock account and she has all these little Spidey's in houses and like, she has like tiny Tiny's micro lens cameras and like shows them on her hand and I'm like, and she does little voiceovers and now I'm like, you guys are so cute.

So whenever I see a jumpy spider, I'm like, hello!

Chloe: If they have an Instagram, please link it to me because one of my friends is quite [00:48:00] scared of spiders, but I feel like something like that might be helpful. Absolutely.

Mikaela: I'll find it. Yeah. Yay.

Chloe: So, my Christmas. So this is the first year that we were vegan for Christmas.

Well, first year that we were being in for Christmas in England, because after COVID and everything we hadn't been for, I guess, I can't remember, I guess it was two years, but we were meant to go back like a year before. And so it felt really sad, being in Australia for Christmas the year before. And I had really built up this Christmas in my mind, like my family is accepting and my dad took me to Tesco's, which is basically the equivalent of Coles.

And like, I got to buy basically anything vegan I wanted. And he was like, I'll get all this for you. Like, and then he was like, okay, never again. I'm like, oh, that's a hundred pounds. Wow. Well worth it. And yeah, that got me through so much of it. It was actually just amazing to run around a shop [00:49:00] in, I guess, a foreign country and see what stuff they had available.

So good. So many different things. I feel guilty about it because I actually bought this product that had Palm oil in it. I didn't realize until afterwards, like, what makes this delicious? Oh, it's Palm oil and it was vegan whipped cream. It was so good. It was stunning. I wow. It was, it was so good.

Like that whipped cream in a can spray it into your mouth. Oh I demolished it, but I'll probably never buy it again.

Mikaela: Hopefully there's something else without, without Palm oil, maybe

Chloe: One day, one day they will be. And I just hope it doesn't have like a coconut aftertaste.

Mikaela: Oh yes. I feel like I like coconut, but surprise coconut.

Chloe: it's not welcome.

Mikaela: No, it's not welcome.

Chloe: So I bought, I guess, a roast for me and Tarik to have some sort of vegan roast, but when it came to the day for one, like I had been not totally vegan while I had been there and Tarik actually came a week after me [00:50:00] long story short, he wasn't allowed to come until.

Until he'd been like 14 days vaccinated. And we, we stuffed up at the time. So he's only seven days vaccinated at the time he had to get a flyer seven days later. And during the time when he was gone, I was like, well, like I'm still vegan, but if I think something's going to be wasted, then I'll eat it. And there was a meal that one of my grandma's made for the whole family.

And it was like this great pasta dish that was especially vegan. Like she catered to me and it was great. But then she also has just these piles of pre grated, well, she had graded ccheese. And I thought maybe they won't finish all of it. And me thinking like, that was like, well, that means it'll be wasted.

So I ate cheese in front of her. And I think I said basically along those lines on Christmas, like I might not be super strict. I don't know, like depends on the day. And when it did come to the day, me and Tarik were like, no, we're gonna, we're gonna be good. [00:51:00] There's going to be heaps ofvegetables. We've got. But I was heartbroken when I realized I forgot to buy like a gravy.

Mikaela: Oh no, no gravy!

Chloe: So I didn't have any gravy. And I think most of the veggies we could eat, but there were certain things that I was like, ah, yeah, this would have been so good with gravy with the meat. Honestly I forget that butter isn't vegan sounds so dumb for so many people, but because I've lived off vegan butter for five years, it's just butter to me.

Mikaela: Yeah, exactly. It's like when you say something like, oh yeah, I had schnitzles last night or I'm really craving a hot dog and people are like, aren't you vegan. And it's like, yeah. There's like vegan schnitzels and vegan hot dogs. But I'm not going to say vegan in front of every single food, because then you'll be like, oh, why is she always being preachy?

It's like,

Chloe: damned if you do

Mikaela: Right?

Chloe: Yeah. So it was fairly good. My plate looked slightly [00:52:00] different, but no one cared. I got a tiny bit jealous that people could have certain thingsI couldn't . Honestly, yeah, it was all the gravy. Like the meat was okay, but dry.

Mikaela: Yeah, yeah. Definitely

Chloe: So next year, like gravies, top of my list.

Mikaela: Yeah. I think I had a little note here about foods and alternatives and I'm sure if Australia, I'm not sure if you would know actually, but pavlova is like the Christmas dessert. It's like, oh my gosh.

That's so clearly, right? Yeah. It's like a merigue and there's like cream on top with fruits

Pavlova and choc ripple cake, both very aussie things, but you can actually make both without any animal ingredients. So for the pavlova: aquafaba instead of eggs, which is chickpea brine, which sounds gross, but honestly, you can't taste it. And you can make your own [00:53:00] meringue. And for chocolate ripple cake, the Arnotts choc ripple biscuits are actually accidentally vegan and you just use coconut cream instead. And I can vouch for both that they're very, very good.

So if you want to surprise your family this Christmas, or whenever the heck, you just want to eat a random pavlova or choc, ripple cake, give it a go. Yeah.

Chloe: So you've done the whole Aqua faba thing?

Mikaela: Yeah, I've done it once before I had no idea what I was doing and it didn't really turn out very asthetically pleasing, but it was tasty.

Chloe: Oh, that's what counts. I don't care what it looks like.

Mikaela: Smother in fruits and no one will know. So yeah, you can, you can still have the traditionals with a little twist.

Chloe: Yeah, I love pavlova. I'm like all in for that being a thing over here, the thing in the UK as well, Christmas cake and my other Nanna every year, she makes a trifle, which is excellent.

But the trifle will have cream [00:54:00] and jelly. And also alcohol, which I'm not a afn of. But I might dabble in making a vegan trifle with no alcohol.

Mikaela: Yeah it can just be a fun experience. Sometimes I feel like mistakes in the kitchen can be fun unless you spend like five hours making something and it tastes like poop. That's no fun.

Chloe: Well, last time I did that and it did taste good, but it wasn't vegan. It was back. I had eggs and Tarik is like obsessed with meringue. So I make like a lemon meringue tart cake.

Mikaela: That sounds time consuming.

Chloe: It was time consuming, especially because we didn't have any sort of electric whisk. So I was making thoes meringues by hand.